Titanium Rear Bolt

[A.P.E. for the a-5]

Well guys I'm stuck. So I decided to come to the all knowing ones once again.
ok well I was looking on the ultimate mod/ upgrade thread (again) and saw the titanium rear bolt. and was like that would be freakin sweet. but...then i read that it suggests e-grip users not to use it. but didnt say why. so i e-mailed them and asked. and they said...

Hi,

The problem appears to be that the circuitry in the E-grip was set up for the heavier stock steel hammer. With the replacement of a titanium hammer that weighs about half of the stock steel one, the gun runs into cycling problems during full auto firing because the hammer is back in the “catch” position before the circuitry tells the sear to catch the hammer. So you have a “failure to catch” problem. Operation in semi-auto is no problem, since you get one shot for each trigger pull, timing is not an issue.

Since the problem is a circuit board timing thing . . . there is nothing we can do on this end to make the system compatible.

Thanks for writing.
Eric

so now I'm thinking that since i have an A.P.E. board that maybe I would be able to program it to be able to work flawlessly with the lighter bolt. but instead of going out and spending $60 on a hunch. I decided to talk to you guys about it. I officially declare this thread OPEN!

[The Unrealist]

Hmm.

If I'm reading this right, you might be able to get it compatible by putting a very low dwell on the egrip. That would (I think) make the sear trip and reset very quickly.

Also, I think for further security, you could use a higher tension drive spring. I think that will slow down the speed of the bolt returning rearwards.

[SSgt.R-Ichikisu]

There may be a problem doing that as the hammer may not return far enough for it to catch the sear. I've often seen people trying to do this when they go with a slightly lighter bolt. I'm just speaking from experience working on others A5s and X7s.

[ROADGUNNER]

my titanium bolt works fine with my rt, so far no problems

[Lord Odin]

Have you tried contacting APE about the titanium bolt? Or was that the email you were referring to? I'm interested in what they'd say about it, as well.

[A.P.E. for the a-5]

response trigger systems should be fine. its the programming of the boards in the e-grips that are why its not suggested. and i haven't thought of contacting APE ill e-mail them now and ill post the reply. hopefully they will have an answer.

[A.P.E. for the a-5]

and this ? is for ROADGUNNER or anyone else who may own a titanium rear bolt. does it do all that Dark Horizon says it does? and is it all true?

Hammer is 62% the weight of the stock steel hammer.

The titanium surface is almost as slick as the surface of a non-stick skillet.

The lighter hammer weight reduces cycle noise and kick at the same time increases gas efficiency, accuracy and cycle rate.

and does it have a good seal in the back of the power tube?

[A.P.E. for the a-5]

ok so I e-mailed APE and this is what they said...

I can't say that their statement is totally accurate... nowadays, even the "stock" E-grip from Tippmann has adjustable dwell.

The Rampage you can adjust down to 2 ms... Now you'll never release the hammer with that setting, however our default is 6 ms. There's NO WAY the hammer is back in that short amount of time... If it were, that would be 166 BPS. Even if you throw in another 14 ms for the electro-magnetic field to collapse, that's still 50 BPS... a physical impossibility of the Tippmann design.

It's more likely they are referring to the lag of the sear, push rod, and solenoid together... it's not the electronics by any stretch of the imagination.

Given that scenario, Tippmann is now including a magnet to assist the sear as it returns to the "catch" position. It's available in the newer clamshells.

I'd be interested in knowing whether it works. Eliminating all the reciprocating mass for the marker would make it a much better design. I don't know anyone who's using it.

I'd pose your question on the A5 Owners Group.
APE support

Isnt it great how things just work in one big circle lol
So then most likely ill go ahead and buy it then. lol but i would still like to know if all the things dark horizon said about it are true.

[aerophyte]

I used to own it, it's actually very light however not as light as the newer A5 bolts. The airflow is different as well. In most the adds for the titanium bolt, they do not show you this.

[Lord Odin]

Originally Posted by A.P.E. for the a-5

ok so I e-mailed APE and this is what they said...

I can't say that their statement is totally accurate... nowadays, even the "stock" E-grip from Tippmann has adjustable dwell.

The Rampage you can adjust down to 2 ms... Now you'll never release the hammer with that setting, however our default is 6 ms. There's NO WAY the hammer is back in that short amount of time... If it were, that would be 166 BPS. Even if you throw in another 14 ms for the electro-magnetic field to collapse, that's still 50 BPS... a physical impossibility of the Tippmann design.

It's more likely they are referring to the lag of the sear, push rod, and solenoid together... it's not the electronics by any stretch of the imagination.

Given that scenario, Tippmann is now including a magnet to assist the sear as it returns to the "catch" position. It's available in the newer clamshells.

I'd be interested in knowing whether it works. Eliminating all the reciprocating mass for the marker would make it a much better design. I don't know anyone who's using it.

I'd pose your question on the A5 Owners Group.
APE support

Isnt it great how things just work in one big circle lol
So then most likely ill go ahead and buy it then. lol but i would still like to know if all the things dark horizon said about it are true.

Ok, so if I read that correctly, then it means that the bolt, no matter how fast it goes, will never be able to outperform the e-grip boards (in particular, the APE board). That would mean the upgrade might be worth it.

Is that interpretation correct?