Exploiting the R/T. Parts?

[VVulfe]

I'm on a mission - a mission to make my R/T do things it's not supposed to.

I'd like to try experimenting with using a valve and hammer out of an LPK, while running HPA - less gas needed to move the hammer, more gas goes to the RT and cyclone.

Questions:

1) Is this sound reasoning, at least as a start point?

2) Do I want _stiffer_ springs, to hold the valve open longer, or _softer_ springs, because of the lighter valve/hammer needing less to allow the same amount of gas through?

3) Is it possible, anywhere, to get just the hammer and valve out of the LPK?

Any thoughts?

[SilentDeath12886]

You cant gett he valve and hammer by itself. I will say buy a used kit. How do you intend on making this work? how will it be any different than a tuned LP kit with R/T. I have a LP kit plus a R/T on my 98.

[VVulfe]

Originally Posted by SilentDeath12886

You cant gett he valve and hammer by itself. I will say buy a used kit. How do you intend on making this work? how will it be any different than a tuned LP kit with R/T. I have a LP kit plus a R/T on my 98.

Gah! Why does Tippmann insist on doing this?!

That said, if the only way I'm going to get the LPK Hammer/Valve is to buy the whole kit - does my reasoning sound solid enough that I'm not about to drop $140 without being able to pursue this idea further?

[SilentDeath12886]

The kit is actually closer to around 110 is you look a bit, I found a couple of kits go for $50 on ebay and pbnation. As for yout theory/plans, im not sure that would work very well. i sometimes see it working in my head, but at the same time it doesnt always work that way. lower pressure equals more volume and higher pressure means less volume, so you nee da balance of both to make it effecient. and you can really divert more gas intot he r/t as well, only be blocking the flow of the gas going to the ball by the FVA. it will make the air more turbulent and you will either need longer dwell or higher pressure to fire the ball at proper velocity.

[Picard]

What would this really do? More air to the R/T would not make it shoot faster. It would just increase the tension on the R/T piston. That's unless you want to use it to do something other than push the trigger back forward.

[VVulfe]

Why wouldn't increased pressure on the RT piston increase the rate at which it resets?

[Picard]

Maybe slightly but if you think about it, the reset rate is inherently linked to the cycle of the bolt. I think that increasing the pressure would just make the force push back harder and not really cycle all that faster. Maybe you would get 1-3 bps faster, maybe.

If you use a lighter hammer, less gas will be released since the hammer is what essentially increases or decreases the dwell of the valve. Yes, there will be less gas used to cycle back the hammer but there will also be less gas sent to the R/T.

There is a proportion that links the gun velocity, hammer reset time and R/T and Cyclone cycling together. If you use a lighter hammer, you will have to use a heavier spring to keep your velocity consistent. Basically, sending more air to the R/T will inherently mean your gun will have to be shooting hot.

The only way that I see that you can increase R/T pressure would be to somehow change the valve setup so that more gas gets vented to the R/T, or remove the cyclone feed so that all the gas goes to the R/T.

[VVulfe]

Originally Posted by Picard

Maybe slightly but if you think about it, the reset rate is inherently linked to the cycle of the bolt. I think that increasing the pressure would just make the force push back harder and not really cycle all that faster. Maybe you would get 1-3 bps faster, maybe.

In fairness, that would get me past the 20bps barrier I've been hitting. At this point, do I need 20bps? No. But I like tinkering, and I want to figure out how to get the R/T up there. It's just a personal challenge.

Originally Posted by Picard

There is a proportion that links the gun velocity, hammer reset time and R/T and Cyclone cycling together. If you use a lighter hammer, you will have to use a heavier spring to keep your velocity consistent. Basically, sending more air to the R/T will inherently mean your gun will have to be shooting hot.

True, but lightening the rear bolt will allow it to cycle more quickly. Now, the LPK valve lets more air through, so I'll have to bring the flow down with my FVA - to prevent shooting hot, increasing the back pressure to the RT.

Originally Posted by Picard

The only way that I see that you can increase R/T pressure would be to somehow change the valve setup so that more gas gets vented to the R/T, or remove the cyclone feed so that all the gas goes to the R/T.

See, I think this is effectively what I'd be doing by using the LPK - because it needs vastly less HPA to function (when running at full pressure rather than LP) I can - and will have to - crank that FVA quite tightly closed - which should redirect a LOT of that air to the RT and cyclone, no?

[Picard]

Well it can't hurt to try it out. If you have an LPK then why not. I can't know what will happen since I don't have an LPK but, if I were you, I wouldn't buy one hoping to make this work.

Good luck and make sure that you tell us what you end up doing and how it works.

[VVulfe]

Will do! Just have to start gathering parts and hunting ebay - I'd rather not pay full price for this thing.

On a semi-related note: Does anyone know if the DOP Proseal powertube has a locking screw for the FVA? Especially with this setup, I _don't_ want my FVA moving at all out of safety concerns.