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Old 09-01-2010, 10:24 PM
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Post Ultra R/T HOW TO: Max-Out your R/T!

This thread is for the reference purposes of maxing out your R/T system, and thus obtaining the next level of R/T performance: “Ultra R/T System”. So what is the “Ultra R/T” anyway Osage you may wonder? Do you mean Super R/T? No, the Ultra R/T is taking a mech Tippmann as far as you can go performance wise without going electric, and some that have done this would argue that it’s better than E-gripping your Tippmann.

The Ultra R/T is a specific combination of mods/parts in a certain order that basically will make a Tippmann achieve VERY high rates of sustainable fire; it is how you can achieve the same ROF as some high-end electros with mech blow-back only (No electronic aid or E-gripping required). Super R/T alone is capable of a pretty good BPS, but doesn’t touch what I’m going to out-line for you guys here! It will perform as full-auto would, although technically you aren’t full-auto due to the fact that your finger is slightly bouncing/pulling or “vibrating” as the marker cycles. This means even though you might be shooting extremely fast, you technically are pulling the trigger once for each individual shot. Thus circumventing any field bans on full-auto with this technicality, especially if the field tolerates R/Ts to begin with. While guys with electros will have to turn their modes of fire off, you’ll be running around with whatever mode you want, or the situation requires, at you instant disposal of your finger-tips.

By definition this is not full-auto, even though it looks and feels that way. Remember, full-auto is defined as: one trigger pull to a result of multiple shots. With this you can still pop one shot, hold it for a sec to burst, or just grip and rip (auto) until you’re satisfied. No silly batteries, selector switches, it’s durable as hell, and never quits working or fails- EVER. Water-proof to boot, and if your ammo didn’t melt you could use this thing under water (I’ve done it).

To good to be true you wonder? Nope, this is real and it works- I’m currently running in or around the range of 20-25ish BPS now with no electronic aid of any kind, and no functional problems; so are all my team-mates (That use Tippmanns anyway). I am not the first to use some of these mods together in this combination, and you know who you are if you’re reading this.
Just putting this out there for all those that want it.

First I’m going to put a basic list of required parts below with the purpose/role of that part listed and how it affects the overall system, and then I’ll talk a bit about installation and tuning. What we’re basically doing here is taking function that is sloppy/loose and fine tuning the system-tolerances to a minimum.


"Ultra R/T" Needed Parts List:

1) Full Cyclone Kit. You have to have a cyclone kit to keep up with these ROFs guys, no ifs, ands, or buts 'bout it.
You HAVE to have a full cyclone kit of some kind, this will probably eat a stock ratchet up quickly IMHO.
EDIT @ 11/12/2010: Lightning Rod highly advised as well; upgraded/after market cyclone piston spring & shaved axle teeth currently in testing to cope with high ROFs of this system, and to increase potential feed-rate of ratchet mechanism.


2) 1/8” R/T Kit (AKA “Super R/T”), with brass fittings.
Purpose: Increase air-flow and R/T sweet-spot capabilities over old 1/16” version.


3) TechT Hair-Pin Kit.
Purpose: Decreases pull required to trip sear (Not to be confused with trigger pull/return).
Start with #4, then later go to #3 (We’ll talk more about this below).


4) Clicky Spring mod (Replaces trigger spring).
Purpose: Decreases force needed to pull trigger.


5) Tunable Trigger, any trigger with set-screws (I.E. TechT Fang Trigger) that permits the tuning of the trigger pull & return distance (I highly advise using stainless steel set-screws as they will be under constant stress/battering, RED Lock Tite in place) Purpose: To prevent operator for over-extending/returning trigger past minimum needed range of motion required complete cycle action of marker.


6) Q-Tip/Pen Straw/Sear Mod, or Q-tip mod. Really you should be using a bit of ink straw from a pen for this, for durability reasons (you know, like what actually holds the ink in a pen?), I’ve also discovered a little “flex” here isn’t a bad thing and will only help. Purpose: Hard links trigger to sear and allows sear to be freely depressed independently with trigger action alone. This causes R/T piston to be the mechanism that engages sear alone, not sear spring anymore. You can actually depress your sear with just your grip off the marker with this mod. Pretty Cool!


Ok, now to explain all of this stuff:
It should be noted for best results these modifications should be installed in the order that I have listed above (But not necessarily in some cases, just do it in the above order, ok?) in a staged process. I have done Ultra R/Ts on about five different markers now over the past couple of days with mixed results, and there are some steps that should not be done before others because you won’t get as good overall performance/ROFs/user comfort. So first install your 1/8” R/T kit with brass fittings, I will assume you know about the flow-control valve and will not cover basic R/T system-tuning in this thread. Next install Hair-Pin #4 and tunable trigger (with stainless steel set-screws) with clicky trigger spring. Tune your trigger by following tuning instructions it came with (Note: Tuning trigger MUST be done before sear mod is in place, sear/Q-tip mod WILL prevent proper tuning of triggers). Use red Lock-Tite on the set-screws after tuning to keep in place, you should let that sit for 24 hours to cure. Wait to do final sear modding until break-in is completed (covered below). Tune your and use your system as is (without final sear mod) for the next 1 to 2 games.

Now here’s the tricky part people probably don’t know: There is a break-in time on this set up, of about one to two game plays worth where you need to hold off on putting the “Q-tip” or sear mod in. Here’s what we think is going on: As you use your new tunable trigger with the hair pin, it begins to wear the contact points on the set-screws down a bit (Slightly mushrooming/conforming even stainless steel against R/T piston head). The result is when it’s done breaking in, the tolerances have slightly changed allowing the trigger to be pulled farther than minimally needed to trip sear required by your #4 Hair-Pin. This results in what I call “break-in run-away”, to where the marker is cycling uncontrollably, chopping and whatnot. The sear is being allowed to be depressed too much by trigger due to the new tolerance, and sear won't catch hammer resulting in run-away. This is your que, grab the cocking handle to stop it, call yourself out or whatever, go to the dead zone, and depressurize. Put in Hair-Pin #3 to compensate for the break-in run-away tolerance change. Now it is now ok to put the sear/Q-tip mod in place. Once you have that done you’ll be ripping at least 33-50% faster than you were previously, and there will no longer be a sweet spot (not that there was much of one before) but will now look and feel like full-auto with a much faster ROF than before. Re-tuning of R/T flow control valve may, or may not be needed at this time for fastest results.

Theoretically you could put the sear mod in place before break-in run-away occurs, then just go down one Hair-Pin size at that time. But the system seems to be better and more user-friendly if this set of mods is done as a staged, progressive process over a little time rather than all at once for some reason. It also would be much harder to identify when break-in run-away occurs vs. just regular shooting with the Q-tip/sear mod in place due to the extreme ROF. It is my recommendation that you should take your time installing and tuning each change you make, ensuring there is no problem with each individual piece. Then put the next one in, repeat testing. This will not only ensure the best Ultra R/T user-performance, but will be a good educational experience to you as the user of the system; as well as having trouble-shooting value too.

Enjoy this guys, and I’ll see you on the field!!!

(OsageOrange)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druid
Statistically, Doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners. Remember, guns don't kill people, Doctors do.
*Ask your doctor if you are healthy enough to play with 24-Hour OsageOrange and if this is right for you; do not continue playing OsageOrange if you experience light headedness or faintness, nausea, confusion, or shortness of breath as these may be signs of a serious reaction to OsageOrange. In rare cases, death occurred as a result of consuming other medications or alcohol with OsageOrange; so avoid risky behavior when playing with this Operator. 24-Hour OsageOrange has helped hundreds like you to play a better, less stressful game, so start enjoying yours today...

Last edited by OsageOrange : 01-02-2011 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 09-01-2010, 10:32 PM
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Re: Ultra R/T HOW TO: Max-Out your R/T!

Sticky worthy, rep worthy.

Stuck and repped. Nice job.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:49 PM
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Re: Ultra R/T HOW TO: Max-Out your R/T!

Nicely done. Thanks!
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:06 AM
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Re: Ultra R/T HOW TO: Max-Out your R/T!

Omg you got this stickied? Did you use Elmer's glue or super glue?
Seriously I have been waiting for you to do this! And I will do every mod here. I haven't read the whole thing but I will. You will be and more when chance arises!

I knew you would love the sear mod and I wanted to push you into writing this up. Now you did great job!!! EXCELLENT!!!
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Old 09-02-2010, 08:04 AM
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Re: Ultra R/T HOW TO: Max-Out your R/T!

Nice wright up, allot of good points there. But one thing is, #6 is making it full auto. By definition the q-tip mod is Full auto. Its not easy to catch but it is not allowed at most fields. I play outlaw so if the marker can handle it then awesome.

Great job.
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:22 AM
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Re: Ultra R/T HOW TO: Max-Out your R/T!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostLeader 101
I knew you would love the sear mod and I wanted to push you into writing this up. Now you did great job!!! EXCELLENT!!!
Yeah, I've been meaning to do this for a while and have been putting it off.
The sear mod was the final straw; I just had to tell people how to do this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase It
But one thing is, #6 is making it full auto. By definition the q-tip mod is Full auto.
Without an R/T, you're statement would be absolutely correct here Chase.
However, when you add and R/T you have changed the program (as explained above).

Still one round per trigger pull, and sear does engage once per shot.
By definition not actually full-auto in this specific combination.

Oh, and thanks for the rep from all of you!

(OsageOrange)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druid
Statistically, Doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners. Remember, guns don't kill people, Doctors do.
*Ask your doctor if you are healthy enough to play with 24-Hour OsageOrange and if this is right for you; do not continue playing OsageOrange if you experience light headedness or faintness, nausea, confusion, or shortness of breath as these may be signs of a serious reaction to OsageOrange. In rare cases, death occurred as a result of consuming other medications or alcohol with OsageOrange; so avoid risky behavior when playing with this Operator. 24-Hour OsageOrange has helped hundreds like you to play a better, less stressful game, so start enjoying yours today...

Last edited by OsageOrange : 09-02-2010 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:36 AM
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Re: Ultra R/T HOW TO: Max-Out your R/T!

should the internals be polished? Wouldn't that help for the ROF?
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:37 AM
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Re: Ultra R/T HOW TO: Max-Out your R/T!

(Unless I just dont understand how it works)
No, even with the RT it can be full auto. I have an a5 with that same set up you describe (egrip sear actually), and if I just squeeze really hard and over power the RTs piston it goes full auto. When I pull and hold the trigger, it shoots consistently, I call that full auto becuase the sear never re-engages the hammer until I let go of the trigger or loosen up and let the rt reset it before the next pull. The trigger gets kicked a little by the rt but it doesn't push it enough to engage the sear with the the hammer (if Im squeezing tight).
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:42 AM
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Re: Ultra R/T HOW TO: Max-Out your R/T!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevyreyrey
should the internals be polished? Wouldn't that help for the ROF?
Absolutely, but I consider that a standard mod every operator has.
I didn't list that because it is assumed that if you are a member here you have already done that!

But yes you're correct, you should have polished internals with this.

(OsageOrange)
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[OsageOrange]*proudly operates these quality products:
Quote:
Originally Posted by druid
Statistically, Doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners. Remember, guns don't kill people, Doctors do.
*Ask your doctor if you are healthy enough to play with 24-Hour OsageOrange and if this is right for you; do not continue playing OsageOrange if you experience light headedness or faintness, nausea, confusion, or shortness of breath as these may be signs of a serious reaction to OsageOrange. In rare cases, death occurred as a result of consuming other medications or alcohol with OsageOrange; so avoid risky behavior when playing with this Operator. 24-Hour OsageOrange has helped hundreds like you to play a better, less stressful game, so start enjoying yours today...
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:53 AM
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Re: Ultra R/T HOW TO: Max-Out your R/T!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase It
(Unless I just dont understand how it works)
Not to be a jerk, but I think you are a bit...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase It
(No, even with the RT it can be full auto. I have an a5 with that same set up you describe (egrip sear actually), and if I just squeeze really hard and over power the RTs piston it goes full auto. When I pull and hold the trigger, it shoots consistently, I call that full auto becuase the sear never re-engages the hammer until I let go of the trigger or loosen up and let the rt reset it before the next pull. The trigger gets kicked a little by the rt but it doesn't push it enough to engage the sear with the the hammer (if Im squeezing tight).
Yeah see there's why you think that, you and I aren't talking about the same thing here.
What you have I suppose could be considered full-auto.

What I'm describing here is not full-auto (by true definition anyway).
You are "over-powering" the R/T with an E-grip sear; I am still "working-with" a fine tuned R/T with a modded stock sear.
You stated that you pull the trigger once and it fires multiple shots without sear engaging until I let go and that you have to "over-power" the trigger.
That's not what happens with this; one shot to one trigger-pull, sear engaging every time (just REALLY fast).
I could engage my system with just my pinky finger, so that's a major difference there alone.
These are two completely different cycle mechanisms IMHO.

But I can see why you would be confused as to the difference…

(OsageOrange)
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[OsageOrange]*proudly operates these quality products:
Quote:
Originally Posted by druid
Statistically, Doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners. Remember, guns don't kill people, Doctors do.
*Ask your doctor if you are healthy enough to play with 24-Hour OsageOrange and if this is right for you; do not continue playing OsageOrange if you experience light headedness or faintness, nausea, confusion, or shortness of breath as these may be signs of a serious reaction to OsageOrange. In rare cases, death occurred as a result of consuming other medications or alcohol with OsageOrange; so avoid risky behavior when playing with this Operator. 24-Hour OsageOrange has helped hundreds like you to play a better, less stressful game, so start enjoying yours today...

Last edited by OsageOrange : 09-03-2010 at 01:38 PM.
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